650b rant to joe whitehair, who probally doesnt care that much, but it just came out of me in one big gush, and i decided due to the lack of recent posts, to make a post out of it. apologies to joe, and anyone who doesnt want to hear about why i dont like all 29ers, all 650b’s and kona.
joe was being a good email buddy when he shot me a link to a story about kirk pacenti’s new panaracer 650b knobby.
i responded with something innane about rivendell being the forefront of alternative bicycle culture, and how they were more influential than bridgestone. he wrote back with this: “Personally I don’t see the need for 650b on the dirt, 26″ and 29″ seem to cover things but it might be interesting to see how things shake out.”
to which i wrote the following mouthful: “i think the problem with the whole 29er thing is market demand. by that i mean: short riders demand that makers come up with 29ers that ‘work’ for them. even if the frames arnt suspension corrected (but all the mass market ones are) they still have these baby little headtubes, which leads to failures. not to mention: toe clip overlap. to compensate, big wheels and small frames mean slack head angles, high bbs, steep seat angles, and lastly bad aesthics.
companies (cough kona cough) try to shorten wheelbases by using plates where they should use steel, leading to almost inevitable failure (and more weight). i dont think you can build a good sus corrected 29er under say, 19 or 20 inches, and you cant build a non sus corrected one with any structural integrity under 17 inches. the headtubes literally try to tear themselves off. thats where 650b comes in. it still doesnt make sense for say, a 14 inch frame, but it does eliminate some of that super small headtube leading to failure. i dont even work in a shop anymore and i have seen 6 broken 29er frames in as many months. how many broken 26 inch frames have i seen? nada.
also, i see 650b as a huge fuck you to the mainstream industry (which is in dire need of a fuck you), where, if it catches on, is gunna cost big companies big bucks to develop all new tires, forks, rims, spokes, ect ect. maybe we’ll see drop bars come back full force to the mtn scene? who knows? all i know is this: whatever this bike industry shake up means, i wish that it would translate to A. the rest of the consumer market and B. to politics. wishful thinking i’m sure. apologies for the rant. i bet if i post this, at least 24 people will jump down my shit for criticizing the 29er scene, which i am not doing. i’m criticizing the bike makers inability to say no.”
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please read above again before giving me shit. i clearly (i think) stated that i dont hate on all things 29er. i just think, like every other wheelsize, it has its time and place.
The thing is, 29er’s are nothing new. Case in point, the Thomas Edison film with the trick rider on stage. I personally see the 29er movement as proof that the industry is stagnant and grasping at whatever it can to re-invent the wheel. Front suspension 29er’s are just proof that people will buy anything. I would bet that somewhere there exists drawings for a full-suspension 29er. (cough,Kona,ahem…)I ride a Redline 29er because it’s Cory’s and in my shed, but I’d never buy one. I don’t really see the usefulness of the 650B either though. Other than it would be a bike that could/would do it all (road,gravel,dirt). But I’m not trying to turn the industry on it’s ear. I would be totally happy owning a 26 single speed rigid bike for mountain riding and ride through all the trends as they come and go.
Ok, so I see the whole 650b mountain bike thing now. I actually read the article about the tires you linked. Useful without affecting the geometry and still having a nice large wheel to roll over stuff. I’d still rather hop over things with a 26. I have to say though, I’ve put that Redline through some serious hell…and it hasn’t failed yet.
your first post basically says the same thing that the wall street journal said about 29ers. your 29er should be fine rob, it actually has a headtube rather than a tiny point where the downtube and top tube meet. there already are 29er dualies. fisher, 9er, i am sure there are more (please whoever is reading this dont come back and list them all, we actually dont care beyond the point of example)
personally i just like when a small guy comes along and says fuck you i’m going this way and more or less, without trying to, forces the rest of the industry to hop on one foot trying to keep up. why dont we have politicians like that?
Why don’t we have politicians like that?
Because pussies represent pussies!
there, I bet the Wall Street Journal didn’t say that.
I like it too when the system changes because of one mans/womans independent vision, just not when that vision sells out and becomes the property of the trendy masses. But I guess I am guilty myself of things that parallel that sour taste of trend, ie. my chrome bag.
its kinda of hard to completely avoid it, and sometimes its not a bad thing to hop on a bandwagon, as long as you are doing it for the right reasons. ie hopping on the hipster fixie wagon gets kids thinking bikes are cool for transportation, hopping on the handmade bike thing makes more room for custom builders who really care, ie damien, hopping on the touring wagon or the 650b wagon gets more people away from racing bikes, and pushes the positive development, or redevelopment of good practical bikes.
Hey, I hopped on THIS bandwagon didn’t I?
All I’m saying is, I know when to get on and when to get off…
I’m confused, but that’s normal. So there.
I can point my hypocrite finger to that chubby guy in the mirror also, so keep that in mind as well.
26er’s are legit, so are 29ers and so will 27pointfivers once the industry gets behind them. As much as I hate to do it publicly, I have to agree with Johnson about hopping the bandwagon. Bottom line is who gives a shit as long as people ride bikes. You can say I’m biased, because the bigger the pool of riders, the more customers I’ll potentially have, but the bottom line is that I like bicycles and bicycling. You can ride BMX, trials, MTB roadies, tour, ramble, commute, whatever, as long as you’re not an asshole, you’re good to go. Shit, maybe even if you’re an asshole.
I have to ask though, what’s alternative bike culture today? Yesterday it was hipsters on fixies and it came with tight black jeans and t-shirts that don’t make any sense. I know you want to have Grants love child, but what’s he doing that hasn’t been done before? For that matter, what’s anyone doing that hasn’t been done before? At best, all we see are improvements on existing designs, production efficiency or material changes. I think lots of builders are doing cool stuff, but I don’t think I’ve seen an original idea for a long time.
One other thing…when is it time to get off the bandwagon? Our generation seems to want to shun anything that achieves any kind of financial and popular success…isn’t that a bandwagon of it’s own? If you like doing something, who gives a shit what opened your eyes to it in the first place, or if it becomes mainstream…keep on doing it as long as you enjoy it and don’t worry about what anyone else thinks.
I stopped listening to Metalica when they came out with the black album because the music sucked, not because it became popular. Although I should admit that I put the skids on converting my RB-1 to a fixie when I saw that every self-absorbed hipster in this city rides one. I take back every bad thing I ever said about hippies; more on that later.
When to get off the bandwagon?
What I mean is, we all have our own personal limits to what we will go along with for whatever reasons. I know when I can no longer want to go along. It doesn’t mean I’ll never do it or have one…it just means I’ll do it when all the hype blows over or be doing it before I realize it’s the next big thing, or be doing it while it’s still trendy. I won’t be the one who tells someone else to not buy something or try the latest trend just because I’m not doing it. I just know what I like, and sometimes that is figured out by what I don’t like.
I too think it’s great that people are riding bikes, especially if their assholes…because sooner or later they’ll “get it” and just enjoy riding bikes…or quit and move on to roller blading or buying up cheap homes to resell them or something.
…and I’m not really shunning the trends because they have achieved success financially or have become popular. I was merely observing the nature of cycling and how a “new thing” sweeps the community like a wildfire for a year or so and then basically mulches the next crop of next big things with it’s influences, either positive or negative.
I do see what your saying though…and I hope I don’t make you feel like I am disagreeing with you JUST ANOTHER NAME, or defending myself guiltily, I suppose I just wanted to clarify my words of late.
I still ride BMX bikes and have enjoyed doing so for over 20 years. That bandwagon came and went and is kinda lurking around again in a much better reincarnation that I am stoked on. As an example of what we’re saying, that bandwagon was driven by folks like Mat Hoffman and Dave Mirra back into the living rooms of America (and the world) where it was thought of as dead for a long time. Bringing it to TV was the best thing that ever happened to BMX, and I’m still fully on that band wagon. So dig what your saying.
Word.
Disagree away I say. That’s the only reason I add anything here. Usually it’s just to put a bee in James’ bonnet.
“I like it too when the system changes because of one mans/womans independent vision, just not when that vision sells out and becomes the property of the trendy masses.”
Wait, I wanted to post a comment with that quote…what I wanted to say is that sentence DOES qualify me as riding the fence between idiot and hypocrite. DOLT! Damn….
Perhaps it’s my witnessing the watering-down of BMX in the late 80’s and early 90’s that has me a thinking about visions selling out and such. After watching so many crappy component and bicycle manufacturers saturate the market with dumb thoughtless crap for BMX bikes, I hesitate to jump on any bandwagon. But I also think the bandwagon I think of is different because I’m being too critical and judgmental. Even though I say I don’t like being that person…it comes out. The bandwagon of people wanting bikes because it’s portrayed as the hip and cool thing to do is a good thing overall. I guess I’ve just seen so many people come and go in cycling and am still here doing my thing. Anyway, sorry to hijack the post with all my selfish crap.*
in defense of grant: i dont think he is saying anything he is doing is new, i think he is smart enough to realize some of what he is doing shouldnta gone away in the first place, but to bring it back it needs slight rebranding. word. lets move on shall we? bum, why dont you start a damn topic, like how to machine a ti headtube in a high school shop class
Shit honky, how the hell would I even start a new topic? Do I have to get super admin rights or learn a secret neo-retro grouch password or some shit? How about I do a piece on completely ripping apart the head of a 50 year old vertical mill, not documenting it’s deconstruction in any way whatsoever and then attempting to reassemble it weeks later from (poor) memory? Would that provide entertainment…’cause that’s what I’m doing tomorrow. After that, I’ll post pictures of all the tools I’m going to break.
By the way, I made an inside-the-tube cleaning tool that I think you’ll like. It’s simple and best of all - steel.
i want pictures drawn on cocktail napkins. password and secret access web site forthcoming. we want spy pics!
Speaking of bandwagons, let’s not forget these industry driven little gems that were force fed to us just a decade or two ago:
-U-brakes
-Bio-pace chainrings
-1 1/4″ headsets
-The idea that full suspension would totally take over the market.
-Spring loaded seatposts for quickly dropping your seat down for better descending
-Zapata Espinoza(although this gimmick is still around)
-Oh, yes, and let’s not forget how the 650B was suppossed to take over the road market for it’s touted lighter weight and quikcer acceleration. (All those poor fools have been trying to dump that crap on ebay for years now).
Crap comes and goes, some stays and some don’t. I won’t be selling my 26″ stuff quite yet.
cary, bio pace was ultra dumb, but u brakes are just brazed on center-pulls, and they are only bad when they are put in bad locations and are made all heavy and hard to adjust. my mafacs are as light as a good canti, strong, and super easy to adjust. they also dont have heal clearance issues on smaller frames, and dont pinch fenders like v brakes or dual pivots do.
how did zap ever get popular?
Zap’s always been a douche. I have no idea how he was able to stay in the industry for so long. 19″ wheels will revolutionize the sports of mountain biking and loaded touring…mark my words
Some interesting reading here:
http://bikebizbabe.blogspot.com/2007/09/650b-experiment.html