Comments on: Dr Silvbrazen discusses the ‘Ethics of Lugs’: explorations in aesthetics, ethics, value theory, taste, applied arts, craft vs contemporary craft, industrial art, and fine art. with diversions into other stuff.

By: dizzy

dizzy — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:12:21 +0000

word. can you keep a secret? If not, don’t open the email I’m about to send you.

By: coffeeaddict

coffeeaddict — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:59:26 +0000

tiz me dizz-y.

By: johnson

johnson — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:33:40 +0000

also, lets get a link of the benjamin article up sometime…

By: johnson

johnson — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:33:19 +0000

i clearly should have re-read art in the age of mechanical reproduction before tossing that benjamin thing out. However! Certain lugged bikes are indeed more accessible than the imitators (used 80s bikes, for starters, Soma’s new frames) but in the case of the true masters, (Sachs, Weigle, Goodrich…) the true form is indeed out of reach, if not monetarily, then from a time stand point. Not unlike the line to see ‘the smiler’.

More later… gotta rewire the headlight on my bike and drink beer.

By: dizzy

dizzy — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:30:18 +0000

James, you blow me away sometimes. Thanks.

coffeeaddict (Dave?), you get it. Thanks to you too.

Lugs can be beautiful. JPW and Dave Ellis make the most beautiful ones IMO. I have yet to see a beautiful lug on a B-Stone or Trek. They’re industrious and unfinished, a product of mass manufacturing whether you want to believe it or not. They’re simply a method of holding tubes together. The “craft” is gone IMO because the soul is gone.

I personally know builders who don’t pay close attention to their miters because “the lug holds it together”. No matter how beautiful the lug, there’s no craft in that either. The instant “the lug holds it together” becomes acceptable, the lug ceases to be about craft and begins to be about marketing. Marketing to people who think lugs are the only way and may not know that what they can’t see can hurt them. The same goes for all other methods for conjoining tubes.

To me (to use your post, or pre script) craft, the pursuit of craft and the pursuit of perfection are the only things that matter. In this context an object of beauty (that is also an element of structure) is irrelevant unless it falls into its proper place along with the rest of the elements of the frame.

By: johnson

johnson — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:24:27 +0000

A. this is what i always hoped would come outta this blog.
B. if i had known this would have been earnestly debated, i wouldnt have filled my post with so much fluff.
C. i shoulda done this sooner.
D. full rebuttal later.

By: coffeeaddict

coffeeaddict — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:51:10 +0000

1. i love lugs and lugged things.

2. i love simplicity.

as i see it, these two things are in direct opposition to one another. the pureness of form and construction found in a tig welded bike (or anything welded for that matter) is the height of craftsmanship. no mistakes. no re-do’s. if the weld or miter or tube choice is fucked up = the bike is fucked up. i have room in my heart for both approaches, but perhaps the lugged is to art analogy more true than you realize. if lugs are an art, then tig welded bikes are design.

By: voice of reason

voice of reason — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:37:36 +0000

well in the example of La Jaconde, Benjamin would say that the reproduction brings the singular experience of the original to a broader audience who would never have the opportunity to experience the original but can still benefit from a shadow of the authentic.

unfortunately this comparison would only work if you could only buy psuedo painted-on lugged bikes made of hi-ten stick welded together. otherwise the original is most realistically more accessible than the imitation.

as an aside, the true value of the smiler, is her and her author’s perceived mystery and history. I have had the pleasure of seeing her in person on several occasions, and you can rest assured that there is as much more to be learned on the psychology, sociology, and movement of mankind in the Denon wing than on fine small canvases.